INTERVIEW

 

 

Why did you choose to go into advertising?

Process of elimination, I would say. I started off wanting to be a journalist, specifically a sports journalist. Then I tried that out for a bit. An internship, freelance, and then I decided that wasn’t for me. So I decided to just do regular journalism, maybe editorial writing. Then, basically, one day somebody came in who owned an ad agency and I didn’t even know this was a career option, so it opened my eyes to that. I’ve always been clearly interested in writing and I was interested in the business world and that mixture of the two, so it was kind of a perfect combination to still write, to still be creative, but also be a part of the business world in an interesting way. So, yeah, that’s kind of how I got here.

 

Tell me a bit about your creative process.

 

It varies. I think, a lot of times, I try to come at problems or briefs from a very—what is the insight? If this is the problem, how do people think about it? So I try to come at things from a quite logical and analytical process. That sounds bad when you talk about creativity, but I think some of the strongest ideas do have that in them. So it’s kind of the safer bet. And sometimes I do what if? If it’s ten o'clock and I’m out of ideas, you just think what if I just posted this on Craigslist right now? What would happen? It’s a mixture of trying to be smart about it, but also curious and dumb. And asking, what if we did this? And I think this comes from understanding how people think.

 

Speaking of the Subway sandwiches, what were some of the challenges you faced with that?

 

The biggest challenge was that we got briefed on the project on a Wednesday and the following Monday was the shoot. It was us and a few other teams writing the scripts. And Friday or Monday they wanted to present it to the client and they chose ours and then the next Monday was the shoot. Usually you have like two months to prep for a shoot, or a month at least. SO that was kind of crazy. So I do think the production could’ve been a lot, a lot lot better on that. So it didn’t come out exactly the way I wanted it to, but at least it got produced. It was kind of a dumb idea.

 

But a good dumb idea! Who are some creatives you look up to or admire?

 

I would have to say, and I’m not trying to be trite when I say this, but I do feel like I’m very inspired by everyone I work with here at Droga. I’ve only been here a year, and so I’ve really come to love all of my fellow creatives, I’ve learned a lot from them. Even how to present an idea, the craft and the polish, but also the rigor that some of the creative directors have about what ideas are cheap, smart. I think I’ve been pushed on the thinking, but also the presentation. I’m really learning a lot from everyone that I work with here.

 

What's a campaign or project you're most proud of—Cannes or otherwise?

 

I would have to say “The Talk.” Just because it was kind of the biggest thing I’ve done to date, but it was also a sensitive topic, it was very difficult for me to work on it. In the sense that I was the only black, the only woman creative on it. On the creative team, we did have a produce, Whitney, who was also black. But it was a lot of stewardship over something that affects so many people, and you know, I think this happens to all people of color—I don’t speak for every single person. I’m trying my best. So I was always worried how it would turn out and how it coming from a brand; how it would be perceived. Thankfully it was perceived well. I think there were people who didn’t like it, but were never going to like it. The All Lives Matter kind of people. To me, that was okay. Whatever. It was kind of a measured risk. I think we already knew it was going to happen. I knew it was going to happen. If you watered it down, it wasn’t going to say anything to anyone. So yeah, I’m really proud of that in the sense that (aside from a little bit of a mixed reaction), people were open to it, people were receptive to it, it started a conversation. Obviously the industry honors—Cannes, Emmys—those are all really great, but it’s seeing it being talked about in the Washington Post. That’s more important, because to me, that means you’re penetrating culture and starting a real dialogue.

 

Did you have any personal goals for that piece, aside from the business/brand goals?

 

Personal goals was for people not to hate me for it. Honestly. Because it’s easy to like look down the credits and go, her. As the writer on it, and it was a writing heavy piece, I wanted the craft to be there and I wanted people to associate it with me as something I’d be proud of.

 

If you were to describe the Cannes Lion in one sentence, how would you describe it? 

 

It is a defining award. That’s my sentence, I guess. But yeah, I think it really is career-defining individually. And for an agency, it’s quite valuable also. I don’t think it’s a perfect system; I don’t think it’s the perfect award show. Within the industry, most award shows are flawed. But I do think it helps you define your career as a creative. Because once you hit that mark, it opens up more opportunities for you to work on other things.

 

Can you talk about the flaws?

 

It’s a big money grab. You know, to order another one of these is $3,000? You get one. The reason I don’t have one anymore is because I no longer work at BBDO, so my partner has one but they’re not going to order one for me and I’m not going to spend $3,000 on one. They’re very, very expensive and even the entry fees are really, really expensive. There’s this whole thing with Publicis last year, they didn’t enter anything, because they said, we need to save our money to work on this virtual assistant thing, Marcel. It is very cost prohibitive, not only to enter, but also to get to the awards. So think about the agencies that are able to enter their work. That being said, it is a good measure of what the best creative work is in the industry. The standards are quite rigorous, the judges are really great, so it makes sense. It’s just very profitable.

 

You were a Young Lion, were you not?

 

I was! I was. I made a good leap from—I came a long way I would say. The Young Lions program is really great. My partner and I did it in 2017, we had won the US competition for print. Which means they sent us to Cannes for free, to compete in the international one, which we didn’t win. I think Italy won, I can’t remember. It was a really cool experience to get to go.

 

How did that influence your perception of Cannes?

 

It was definitely a crash course, because I was there for eight days. Which if you ever go in the future, you don’t want to be there for more than 3 or 4 days because there’s only so many times you can drink rosé and go to the Carleton or the Martinez or whatever. That being said, you are in the south of France, you know, amazing weather, you get taken out on really beautiful lunches and excursions and stuff like that. So, I don’t know, I think my favorite thing about doing it as a Cannes Lion because I did have a pass to the conference, was just going down to the computers and watching the work. Just looking at what’s winning in what categories. The talks were great too, but those were weirdly my favorite part.

 

If you could create your own Cannes Lion award, what would it be & what would be the judging criteria?

 

I think it’s kind of what we touched on earlier. It would be the smartest dumb idea. We write these case studies, and do all of this stuff and sometimes the idea just needs to be simple and catchy. It doesn’t need to have all this meaning behind it. And I mean this in the most complimentary way possible, I think the IHOP team does a great job of that here. IHOb if you saw that, was so simple. You don’t have to sit there and talk about, well we realize that people do this and this, it’s just like what if we made it IHOb, because we have burgers, and people will just be like, why’d you change your name? And that’s it. So I don’t know what the criteria for it would be. Is it dumb? Yes. Is it smart? Yes.

 

What does the Cannes Lion represent to you? 

 

I think it represents a milestone, creatively. It’s kind of a threshold that you want to achieve throughout your career. I think most people do. That being said, it’s not the only thing you should strive for or work on. Not every amazing work gets rewarded or recognized by it. It isn’t the end-all, be-all, but it is a nice career accomplishment for a creative to have.

 

Is there any Lion you haven't won that you aspire to win? What's the next step?

 

I think as far as the Lions go, and I think Jim and Ryan—they won the Titanium Lion—and I think for me it would be cool to win that or even if I don’t win it, something that would be worthy of that. Just because I think it’s such a cool category and the idea transcends just being in film, or digital, or these traditional categories. But it just transcends it and creates something new. I think to me, that’s probably the coolest Lion.

 

What are the key elements to a Cannes-winning campaign or Idea?

 

I think the idea has to be there. Whether it’s simple, complex, smart, or dumb, it has to be a compelling idea. And then I think it also has to have succeeded. It depends, there’s some work that doesn’t do super well in the real world but still gets recognized by Cannes, but ideally it’s about not just industry press, but does it penetrate larger culture? There’s a difference between being on AdWeek versus being on People. You know? Because then you’re reaching out beyond that. Once you get people actually involved, because we are an industry that loves to talk to itself a lot. So I think showing that the work penetrated the larger cultural atmosphere is important.

 

How do you define innovation?

 

I think innovation is kind of shifting and progressing and evolving the way things are done. In an industry or a discipline.

 

What do you perceive as the difference between innovation and disruption?

 

Disruption is a great book, you should read it if you haven’t. There is a difference. And actually, I answered the way I answered it because I saw your question. And there’s a difference. Innovation to me, feels like you’re operating in the same box, you’re just taking things a step ahead, taking things to the next level. Disruption is totally coming at it from a different angle and subverting how people are doing things to begin with. So you’re kind of creating your own box for people to play with, and then someone will disrupt that and create something else. I think it’s about progress, totally new, unexpected. That’s what makes it special. That it’s unexpected.

 

What are your thoughts on innovation as recombination?

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I think in advertising, we’re the masters of that. Especially in the creative portion. Also in the strategy portion. I think it’s very important to have your eyes and ears open to what’s going on. For instance, my art director partner, her name is Julia, she is very attuned to how we can use technology or innovation creatively. I’ll be talking to her about an idea, and she’ll say, there’s conductive ink that can do this, and that, and so kind of keeping you attuned to what’s going on in other industries even if it’s not related to yours at all. I mean that’s a little bit related, but even I don’t know, reading a book about something totally different and unrelated is really important. Because that’s how you come up with really great stuff that isn’t just recycling the same thing within the industry. I think a lot of industries are like this, someone’s a leader and everyone tries to catch up. So you need someone to break out, to do something different.